Where we are going next (Veterans of HBS Class of 2011)

We didn't know each other when we started, but we moved forward with confidence and we quickly bonded. What was true for our general class was even more true for the veterans of the HBS Class of 2011.

Despite drastically different backgrounds; from Naval intelligence to Marine infantry, those of us from different corners of the military quickly united as we attempted to navigate through what to many of us was some of the most unknown terrain we had ever faced.

The uncertainty did not preclude success however, and our small group of veterans claimed two Baker Scholar Awards (awarded to top 5% of HBS) and several awards of Distinction, including one of the handful of Dean's Awards given to students who demonstrate exceptional leadership and contribution to the school while on campus. In short, the veteran community did not only do well, it thrived.

For those of you curious where the Class of 2011 veterans are heading, I've compiled the following data for you:


Industry/Function: The most popular destination is consulting, a favorite blogging topic of mine. Of those going to consulting, 4 are going to McKinsey, 2 to Bain, 1 to BCG, and 1 to Deloitte. There are also 8 going into finance, with 5 going into investment banking, 2 into investment management, and 1 directly into private equity. General Management, Bus/Corp Dev round out most of the others, while a few are breaking ground into their own niches in real estate and startups. One AFAA member is receiving $6m from a VC to start his own materials science company. Others are seeking similar funding to start other business, though the vast majority chose to pursue a traditional post-MBA position. In general, I think it's fair to say nearly everybody got exactly the industry and function they sought. See my previous post on "So What Does Business Mean Anyway?" for a beginner's guide to the recruitment process.

Geography: While the industry/function is not completely out of alignment with the general HBS class, the geography is noticeably different. Across all of HBS, New York City is by far the most common destination for US citizens, while London tends to be the most common destination for international students, or at least it certainly appears that way. That is largely because those cities are the financials hubs for their respective continents, and more HBS students enter finance after business school than do their veteran counterparts. Our #1 location, Washington DC, is not too much of a surprise, considering the natural draw to political and government interest by those who served. San Francisco was a popular destination in general this year due to internet/tech jobs, and the military pool was no exception from the trend. Also in general, a lot more military end up in Southern cities such as Atlanta, Houston, and Dallas.

General Notes: It should be noted that those are are still in the "TBD" category are there by choice. One veteran turned down a position that would most likely pay over $300k/year and is seeking entrepreneurial ventures instead. In broader terms, I don't know anybody in my class who tried but did not receive a top job offer. However, given the wide array of options and tensions associated with all of them, it doesn't mean that students did not have plenty of anxiety about recruiting and which job would be their first civilian position.

Salary: I don't have official numbers, but I'll make approximations. I only do so not because it is something to boast about, but because I still hear from so many military veterans who are concerned about the financial implications of not having income for two years and question whether they can afford to go to business school. For one thing, the Post 9/11 GI Bill makes a huge dent in school costs, and second of all, a school like HBS simply pays for itself. The average total annual compensation (signing bonus, salary, annual bonus, etc.) the first year for my veteran peers is around $175k-$200k/year, and of course, it only goes up from there. That said, don't let the numbers fool you. For many, the job hours are brutal, the work only marginally fulfilling, and for quite a few us who previously led under the greatest of stakes, many would rather be at the point of the spear one last time. That said, nearly everyone is excited about what the future holds, how our careers will unfold, and we are unbelievably grateful for the opportunities that HBS has given us.

HBS, Veterans, and where do veterans go after business school?

HBS Military Prospective Students Day

This past Monday, March 7th 2011, HBS hosted its first ever Military Prospective Student Day. We had about 35 prosective students in attendance and they received a full day immersion in the HBS experience. The day included an introduction by Dee Leopold, class visits to observe the case method, a presentation by Career & Professional Development, a lunch mixer with current students, exclusive guest talks by distinguished AFAA alumni, a student run AFAA panel, a presentation by the AFAA, and an end of day mixer with current AFAA students and alumni from the area (with guests going back to HBS military veterans from 1971).

HBS's interest in military applicants

The intent of the day was to help answer questions and dispel myths about what it means for a veteran to attend HBS. By the end of the day most prospective students indicated how surprised they were that HBS had such a pro-veteran environment and how greatly their military experience was valued by the school and the students. It didn't hurt that all prospective students were given a complementary copy of the Harvard Business Review with the cover of "Leadership Lessons from the Military."

Most prospective students said this was the best experience they've had with any MBA program, and as a former prospective student myself, I know of no other school being this specifically proactive to attract the best and brightest of military candidates who have decided to pursue an MBA. I believe this reflects HBS's efforts to emphasize the leadership component of its mission statement: "To educate leaders who make a difference in the world."

If HBS continues this practice of holding Military Prospective Students Day, I would expect the number of visiting prospectives to grow quite rapidly as this opportunity becomes more well known within the services.

During the presentation from the HBS Career & Professional Development (CPD), employment data was presented to the prospective students showing where their military predecessors are going after HBS. The last full set of data available is from the Class of 2010, and CPD has agreed for this data to be posted here.

Where do veterans go after business school?

HBS military veteran graduation job selection by function

What we see in the above first of all, is that the two are not extremely different. Of the general class, 61% went into finance or consulting, while 62% of veterans went into finance or consulting. Within this category, veterans tended to go slightly more into consulting than finance (compared to peers), and 4% more went into general management... though one has to remember that 4% represents one person in the data set, so these figures are not to be taken as long term patterns. That said, I don't find these results surprising. Veterans tend to be slightly more interested in general management, and many find consulting to be a great way to gain the business experience (and credibility) before moving on to their follow-on industry of choice.

HBS military veteran graduation job selection by industry

The above industry breakout shows that veterans don't tend to enter "niche" industries as often (ie retail, real estate, healthcare), but rather stick to more generalized career options (ie consulting, finance, manufacturing). I believe this reflects the same career choices made for the first job function; most veterans are seeking positions to give them a broad business experience right out of school. I would certainly expect that after 5-10 years, many more HBS AFAA alumni are leading companies or departments in a very wide range of functions and industries.

Final Thought

Several prospective students told me that after the day's events, applying to HBS seemed much more achievable, whereas before they thought it was out of reach. While obviously applying to HBS is very difficult, and getting in is incredibly difficult no matter what one's background is (military or finance wizard), I hope that nobody who wants to come to HBS would ever self-select themselves out of the application process. If coming to HBS is your goal, you should pursue it to no end... the last reason you shouldn't come to HBS is because you didn't apply!

"Control your destiny or somebody else will" - Jack Welch.

How many military go to HBS?

I've recently collected some data very closely approximating the level of veterans at HBS... basically membership numbers for the Armed Forces Alumni Association (the veteran club on campus) over the past decade or so. It shows that the average number per year (this includes a few non-US veterans) to be 40, with a range of 27-50. It's probably fair to assume about 4-6 of the veterans are from non-US militaries, often from conscripted services but not always.

Below is a chart of the AFAA strength since 2000:



If one was to look for meaning in the patterns though, it can be deceiving. For one thing, one has to look at the year of application (assuming the Fall of the year counts for round 1 and round 2, and thus the bulk of the applicants). If one therefore subtracts 3 years from the graduation year to look at the application year, the following is observed:


The fewest number of veterans were admitted in late 2002 (and early 2003). But what does this mean? Does this mean that fewer military people applied that year? Does that mean it was more competitive that year? Or perhaps it was less competitive because so few applied? Is the reverse true in 2003-2004 when the most were admitted? I don't think one can conclude any such position given just this information.

The data shows a mean of 40 with a standard deviation of 9. Most likely, the minor changes year to year are mostly random, and reinforces the fact that HBS does not have "hard" quotas.

Please also note that I don't have data on HBS class sizes going back all those years, so that could have a consequence if military numbers change with class size. To the best of my knowledge, HBS class sizes don't change very often.

This data may be interesting to provide historical context, but shouldn't be interpreted to mean much more than that.

Post-9/11 GI Bill for MBAs Update

The following Post-9/11 GI Bill Update was provided by John Kang, an active duty Army Captain. I haven't verified the data, but he has done a lot of work on this and details more of his methodology on his blog here.


John has taken my original calculations a step further (as well as updated them to reflect 2010 rates). He includes all tuition costs and income, including living expenses and expected internship pay (before taxes).

Taking the Yellow Ribbon Program into account (if you qualify), the results shows that many top schools offer a tuition free education for veterans, and taking BAH and summer internship pay, one can afford to pay for reasonable living expenses and most end up with anywhere from only $10k to $50k total debt after two years. This is pretty good considering one is not working, includes living expenses for two years, and a top MBA degree.

This reinforces the message I tell a lot of people who write in and are concerned with losing their steady military income. Fear no more. The economics of a military person going to a top business school is extremely favorable. You can make more your first 3-4 years after business school than you probably would in the military over the next 10 years. Whether you want to change occupations though and take that job is a totally different question and I am by no means saying it makes sense for everyone to go business school. I'm just saying that from a purely economic point of view, it is a highly net positive financial decision.

Veterans Day Celebration at HBS

This past Thursday (Nov 11, 2010) the HBS Armed Forces Alumni Association (AFAA), a student club, held its annual Veterans Day celebration on campus. We had about 400 students, family, faculty, and friends show up for the event, which highlighted two outstanding keynote speakers: David Gergen and Senator Scott Brown.

Veterans mostly wore their dress blues and we also opened up the event to students of MIT, the Kennedy School of Government, and members of the Harvard Veterans Alumni Organization. An introductory slideshow showed HBS students what their veteran classmates did while in the military, and the event also featured tributes to all services, a static display of military equipment and gear, a POW/MIA presentation, a presentation of the colors by a local ROTC unit, the playing of the national anthem, a USMC birthday cake cutting ceremony, a bagpiper, student remarks, and of course, an open bar and appetizers served to all. An after-hours party followed in Harvard Square.

This annual event definitely marks one of the highlights of my time at HBS, and many members of the AFAA put a lot of hard work into making it a success, marking the highest profile event that the veterans club on campus holds every year. The purpose of the event is both to celebrate and recognize the service of veterans at HBS, and also to create an inclusive environment for the HBS community to learn more about their veteran classmates and the experiences they bring.

Our guests were presented with AFAA club T-shirts, which have the words "West Point of Capitalism" on the front. The club t-shirts are in high demand on campus, and are sold in the spring to students as part of the AFAA charity drive raising money for the New England Center for Homeless Veterans (last year we raised over $10,000).

A few more pictures from the event:

Military Prospective Student Day at HBS

The cover of the latest Harvard Business Review has a picture of soldiers and the front page title:

"Leadership Lessons from the Military - Extreme Conditions in Afghanistan and Iraq have become a testing ground for adaptive management skills that every CEO should understand."

Much like WWII, although to a lesser degree, the Iraq and Afghanistan wars are shaping many of America's future leaders. Outstanding military leaders routinely distinguish themselves in business, and the nine years of continuous fighting has produced a massive talent pool of confident leaders who have been through the test. Business schools have known this for a long time, and continue to place emphasis on getting the right kind of veterans in their classrooms. However, just because somebody worked at a bank doesn't make them a good financier, and just because somebody served in the military doesn't make them a good leader. Business schools are looking for much more than just experience - they are looking at the complete person - just as they do for every industry. In this arena, HBS has been making a particularly noteworthy effort...

I'm therefore pleased to promote HBS's newly created Military Prospective Student Day, which is scheduled on the HBS campus for Monday, March 7th, 2011. This is a forward thinking event run by HBS to reach out to prospective military applicants and I strongly suggest you contact the admissions office if you would like to participate. This will also give them a better idea on the number of people to plan for. If you have any recommendations for the event, feel free to write in to me as well and I will consolidate and pass along. Either way, stay tuned for more information.

Lastly, I'm also pleased to announce that this blog recently surpassed 20,000 hits and about 10,000 unique visitors since launching in April of 2009. That's about the same number of applicants that HBS has had over the same time period. Looking at statisitcs of repeat readership is also really interesting, as it shows that 480 visitors have returned to the site over 200 times, and that around 3,000 visitors have returned over 25 times. The original intent of the blog was to serve as a source of information and insight to prospective students and all those contemplating career changes, so I'm glad to that the blog has been useful to so many. Military To Business has also been read in 128 countries representing over 42,000 pageviews.

HBS Military Class of 2012

While I'm on the subject of discussing admit demographics, I'll also follow up on the post I made last year regarding the military Class of 2011 at HBS.

HBS has made a very genuine effort to provide active duty military personnel the opportunity to attend and succeed at HBS. The new HBS Class Co-President is former military, and military personnel continue to be regarded in very high regard on campus. It's definitely our responsibility not to take that for granted and to continue to earn that respect by contributing to the Harvard community and upholding its long tradition of excellence.

In addition to increasing the GI Bill Yellow Ribbon package to $10k/year (matched by the VA for a total of $20k), the Class of 2012 also shows a 19% increase in former active duty US military personnel.

At 4-5% of the total class, HBS has taken a leading position among the top MBA programs as a school that places a premium on military experience.

I'll note that there were also three foreign military personnel from non-compulsory service nations to be admitted as well (2x Britain, 1x Greece). There are also at least three women matriculating from the military, compared to none in Class of 2011 and two in the Class of 2010.

So it looks like soldiers and sailors really increased their game this year, and unfortunately I won't be around HBS next year to report on the Class of 2013, so this will have to be the best information out there for a while.

Note: As usual, I'll clarify that my data is not from admissions and is therefore not necessarily perfect and is definitely not official. It is however very close.

Veteran enrollment in top MBA programs

I've recently connected the veteran club leadership of many of the top MBA programs in the country in an effort to open up communications and aid the veterans in our respective schools and beyond. One of the first topics we discussed was simply how many of us there are, so we compiled the following unofficial data:


This shows that US veterans represent around 2-4% of the top MBA schools, with an average of about 3%. There is also some variation from across the schools, but I would caution against extrapolating long term school trends from this data, as schools with smaller classes can easily have significant fluctuations in the number of veteran admits. Rather, we can look at this information as a single data point and compare it to future class years. This data also provides no insight into the acceptance rate at each school for military veterans, since applicant demographics are usually held strictly confidential.

On a positive note, there is no reason why these numbers can't go up. The HBS dean of admissions, Deirdre Leopold, is quoted in Fortune magazine talking about the number of military vets at HBS by saying "I would be happy to have that number go up."

Hopefully with the humble help of this blog, and all the resources available, those numbers will indeed go up.