That being said, I am in the midst of a conversation with one of my nearest and dearest friends, who also happens to be a blogger: Mindy from the Devout Life. We have also taken to having this conversation via blog posts [I., II., III.], but not in any sort of scripted way. This is good and bad. It is good in that we get to learn from one another, and you all might get something out of it as well. It is bad in that there seems to be a lot of misinterpretation going on, which is one of the downfalls of online communication. For those who are keeping score at home, I will address some points from Mindy's most recent post, and clarify some points. I will also try to distill some nuggets of wisdom and understanding from our conversation and hopefully give us all something to learn from.
We are different, but not in the way that you think
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Mindy makes a point to say that her and I are different in the way we see the ugliness in our Faith. I am coming to see that maybe we arent that different, but instead we need to understand that our perspective and experience is different, and so our reaction to it is therefore different. Here is what Mindy said:
Here is a major difference between me and Joe. I "spend time with ugliness," as Simcha Fisher recently wrote in a post. I feel particularly stirred and grateful to the Lord when Mass is held at the ugly nursing home, or when I find an ugly chapel in an unexpected place with the Holy of Holies hidden in the tabernacle. But that's Joe's only option. I do take for granted the gift of so many Catholic churches in Anchorage (we're not a huge bunch so I feel pretty blessed in this regard!), and some of them are particularly beautiful to me, but I also wouldn't probably choose to live in a place where I didn't have this. Were God to call us to live a missionary life, for instance, out in the Bush with a priest only coming by every 2 months as it is in many Alaskan villages, my prayers, my longings, my desires would change tremendously. I am certainly not faithful enough or holy enough to "do it on my own."Mindy recognizes that she revels in ugliness because it is in juxtaposition to what she can normally experience somewhere else. Her gratefulness comes not in the ugliness itself but its random or conspicuous occurrence somewhere extraordinary, where the ugliness is actually a cloak for a beauty hidden inside. What is important is what Mindy is not saying. She is not saying that she hates the beautiful Church. She in fact - loves the beautiful Church. Likewise, I choose to live where I live. It was not out of happenstance. I come from Detroit where there are churches that have a sung extraordinary form of the Mass daily. I live minutes from the Seminary where such able minds as Dr. Janet Smith and Dr. Ed Peters taught. I had a local parish that had a perpetual adoration chapel! I am very used to having what Mindy has and more. I don't expect all of that here. What I do feel is proper though, is that when something does exist and can exist ... that it does!
a small point of clarification...
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Florian, in the original post over at GLACC, didn't seem to be arguing that there should be metrics. I think his point was that if there were metrics, we would all be in trouble. I dont want to belabor this point, and I think if Mindy and he were to agree on the intended meaning, that they wouldn't necessarily disagree. I could be wrong - but I think to discuss this too much, when it wasn't I who posted it, would be a waste of time.
talking past one another
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I think the real danger of online communication is that we are left to our own devices with words that are often imprecise. Mindy takes real concern with my newest post: EPIC. To be clear upfront, this point was not primarily about this conversation. I will explain in a later post what it is about, but I wanted to say upfront that her interpretation is incorrect, but through no fault of her own. If I were on her end, I probably would have assumed that it was about this... and seen it much the way she did.
That being said, she quoted a prior post of mine and expressed her concern. She took what I said to be an affront to her more contemplative faith-life which we both acknowledge. Let me be clear on this point, because as I re-read my post I concede I was not; spiritual warfare does occur by many, in many different forms! Mindy took cause with the way that I insinuated that what I was doing was spiritual warfare or in someway more important, but that isn't the case. I do find what she does, and many of the others who are more contemplative and prayerful than I am, just as important as what those such as myself do. Where I think that we bridge the gap is that she acknowledges that she isn't St. Joan. I mentioned to her, as I did on this blog, that St. Joan and St. Therese are very different, but both Saints - they got that way via radically different paths. Likewise, my intended point was to show not that my way was better, but that it was just as valid as Mindy's. A point I could have more artfully made.
a point that does need to be made
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I think where we are missing each other is in this point: Mindy argues that we need more prayer and acceptance of what we already have. That we have the tools to holiness in front of us regardless of any sort of external inspiration. My problem with this argument is that, if that were the case, if we didn't need external inspiration we wouldn't have it at all - it would then instead be external expression. There are folks that walk in our parishes every week that have no idea what Adoration is, the Liturgy of the Hours, or the Rosary. How then do we inspire these folks to the divine, how do we show them the way to the Sacred, without the tools that the Church has afforded us? This argument has turned into a: "What is more important?" It was never intended to be that. My contention is that it is ALL important. God doesn't make mistakes. The Church is not over-indulgent. It gives what we need. We should do likewise.
Mindy refines her point as such:
The point of my post was, "What are you doing?" Are you spending time with Jesus each day at your ugly church? Are you praying the Rosary every day, praying the Liturgy of the Hours, and utilizing all the many tools at your disposal which do not require beauty in order to be utilized? I think Florian and I make a similar point, which is that we must live the faith passionately and have spiritual discipline. To me, it seemed he was indicating that this must come from without, and that a church must be kicked to the curb if this is not happening. Unfortunately, we will not always have "without" to inspire us and so we must remember Who we do have. Not only do we have the Lord there present with us, even in the most humble of environments; we also have the whole Church praying and petitioning for us, on earth and in heaven. Be encouraged! Fertilize the grounds of these dry exterior areas with prayer, thanksgiving, and then petition. Then take action if and when appropriate.The answer to these questions is of course, Yes I am spending time with Jesus in my ugly church. The rest - the Rosary, the LOH, etc... don't come organically to a person. Mindy makes this point herself - she needs Adoration, the external nature of God. She saw in herself that she might not be able to keep herself sufficient in the climate I choose to live in. But we are talking about someone like Mindy who is more experienced, and for lack of a better term - advanced, in her faith. What then of those that don't know how to utilize prayer and the more internal ways to the divine? Isn't the fact that Jesus was sent in human form a perfect example of how we need the tangible and external? Yes we need the contemplative, like Nuns whom I adore, they are the backbone of prayer for the Church. But we also need those in action, fighting in a more hand-to-hand sort of way. [This is where the idea of a violent struggle came in. I understand my point is unclear, so in way of a battle analogy I liken my role to that of a solider and Mindy to that of a Nurse back at the encampment. But are necessary and both are vital - just different.]
What I want to convey to Mindy is that not only does she need me out there fighting for the beauty, she needs it. She needs me, and others like me, to fight for the fulness of tradition and faith for the Church. Yes, Jesus in the Sacraments is all we need in a sufficient sort of way, but there is a necessity in the rest of our faith that helps to satisfy that need. There is a necessity in the beauty, art, and expression that lifts us to that point and gets us to the Eucharist.
A final note: What I find most interesting about this conversation is that we are really arguing each others points. Mindy stated that she needs to be, and chooses to live in a place such as Anchorage where the fullness of the Faith is attainable and easy to access - and argues that we should be more appreciate of having the little that we do. While I, choose to live in the bareness that I do, all the while arguing that we need more. I dont know what this says about anything, but it sure is an interesting observation.
I think in the end, Mindy and I are actually in more agreement than we are giving each other credit for. I think in the end we both believe that folks are called to be different things in the Church. I disagree with her interpretation of what I wrote, and she disagrees the same with my interpretation of what she wrote. But again, in the end – I think we both agree that God gives us that which we need, it is up to us to utilize it to the best of our ability and to live our lives in honor of Him, and in a pursuit of His Kingdom.
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